Curse

Darksun · May 01, 2007, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vandal2k6

Can I ask you something? Were you happy with GW before the loot scaling?

Sure was. I'm glad that now prices are down, I can earn more in HM because I get rewarded for more challenge, and bots have a harder time. It was annoying to know that only 12hr gimmick UW farmers could get cool items.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbird71

And you miss the point completely. The fact is that how many players support the changes or oppose my view is irrelevant, they are making no change in their behavior as a result of the change. Before the change, they were remaining in GW and buying future products. After the change, they will still remain in GW and buy future products. So it really doesn't matter what they say, if you support this change, great, have fun, but so far as you are concerned this change is not affecting your decision to stay or leave.

You're actually telling me that my opinion does not matter because the game co. has done something that I support. That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. The whole point of measuring the people who are FOR with the people who are AGAINST is to know weather they should alter the nerf or not. ANET cannot make a choice as to weather this is working or not based on the reaction of 1 group of people. They need to hear for & against and opinions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbird71

On top of that, no new players will be making a decision to buy this game based on the change. "Come play our game now because our monsters drop less loot" is a poor marketing tool, so it is incredibly unlikely that anyone who was not going to buy GW before is going to suddenly change their mind as a result of this update and pick it up of the shelf now.

Or "our economy is more stable, the game difficulty is more reasonable & you'll actually have a chance to get those cool items you want"
It's all on how you want to spin it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbird71

Except that now we are talking about something completely different, aren't we? This isn't about "hardcore" players, or a "special" group, this is about the casual gamer, the bread and butter of Anet's income, and a very large community of potential future customers. They also happen to potentially be the best source of advertising for future GW products. Word of mouth is an incredibly powerful advertising method, and the opinions of these players, positive or negative, may have a significant impact on anything Anet does in the future.

I think by "hardcore" he means people consistently ranting. Adamant about their position.
Level cap is by far the biggest complain of GW. People still don't buy the game because of it. Threads about it still pop up. If you think that that is a special tiny group you're just hearing what you want to hear. They fact that you are afraid to even acknowledge opposing viewpoints makes me wonder about the validity of your argument.

Abarra · May 01, 2007, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Darksun you are so missing the point.

OK so you can get more loot in hard mode (which I've tried in a couple of areas by the way and got zip) Well grats. but the point is Gaile said that these changes are to help the casual player, the player that enjoys the game that wants to play through the campaign and do a little farming on the side to afford the things they need.

Newsflash the casual player can't now. He's being forced to finish the game and farm in hard mode to make cash.

Games like wow give you many ways to make money, drops, crafting, auction house. you can skin creatures as you kill them and sell it, you can mine as you go and sell raw materials, or you can craft armor and sell it, or use it for yourself. GW has none of this, all cash is made from drops and only drops, with a small addition from quests but that is laughable.

Look at the price of minor vigor runes since this update, they're nearly as much as major which is stupid, of radiant of survivor. Kitting out characters and heroes for the casual player ... the CASUAL player darksun, is now very very hard.

You can all yell 'well get a leet build and farm hardmode' all you like. But as an update designed by the devs to help the casual player I shouldn't have to do that, I should be helped by this update and I'm not I'm hindered to the point that there is no fun in the game for me anymore.

So keep telling me you're making so much cash in hard mode because I'm sure you're having a great time. But the view that all other players should be forced to play your way is both selfish and again as mentioned by the devs not the way the game was intended.

blackbird71 · May 01, 2007, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

You're actually telling me that my opinion does not matter because the game co. has done something that I support. That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. The whole point of measuring the people who are FOR with the people who are AGAINST is to know weather they should alter the nerf or not. ANET cannot make a choice as to weather this is working or not based on the reaction of 1 group of people. They need to hear for & against and opinions.

I'll say this one more time. Supporting this change has no net effect on the number of players or customers in this game. You are welcome to your opinion, but the fact is that in this situation, for anyone who supports the loot scaling, it really makes no difference. If you support the change, chances are it's not something you would have quit over if you didn't get it. It would be an entirely different issue if it was something that had been asked for repeatedly by the players (yes the players asked for some way to deal with bots, but not this), or if it was a game breaking bug, but the fact is that it's not. Or can you honestly tell me that if loot scaling never occured, that you or others would have walked out on the game? Like I said, no net effect, it's not that your opinion isn't important, it's that in this case, it doesn't change anything. What has changed is the fact that there are those who originally played the game and would have continued to play it, except now with loot scaling, they have decided to leave. Opinions are all well and good, but what it really comes down to is actions. Those who support the loot scaling are not making any change in their actions, those who are against it are making a change. The only question Anet needs to concern itself with at this point is whether or not they can be as profitable with the loss of those players upset by the update.

My point is that we can argue forever about the reasons, the reasons for the update, the reasons against it, the reasons for different people playing, the reasons to stay, the reasons to go, etc., and we will probably never get anywhere. In the end what matters is that players are upset enough over this to leave, and arguing their reasons is not going to change their minds. Their own experience has told them that the game is not as fun as it was, and you can't tell them that their own experience is wrong and you are right, you won't get anywhere. The only way to change their minds at this point is to change their experience.

But if you really support the loot scaling and want your opinion to make a difference, then maybe you and everyone who supports it should go and buy an extra account to make up for the lost customers. Other than that, supporting it makes no change in the end.

Acknowledge my opponents' views? I've done that, over and over. Read the thread start to finish and tell me one opposing point I have not addressed. But when it comes down to it, the bottom line is that all of that hasn't done a thing to change the opinions of anyone who says that they have found the game to be less enjoyable.

Loviatar · May 01, 2007, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbird71

In the end what matters is that players are upset enough over this to leave, and arguing their reasons is not going to change their minds, their own experience has told them that the game is not as fun as it was, and you can't tell them that their own experience is wrong and you are right, you won't get anywhere. The only way to change their minds at this point is to change their experience.

But if you really support the loot scaling and want your opinion to make a difference, then maybe you and everyone who supports it should go and buy an extra account to make up for the lost customers. Other than that, supporting it makes no change in the end.

you mentioned earlier that the number of negative posters in this thread is significant.

a quick skim shows that the MAJORITY of the negatives post count coming from a very small number of people posting many times.

you at only 30 of the posts are not really close to the leaders who are in the 40+ range.

many in the 20 to 30 range.

NOW CONSIDER THIS.

a small number of hardcore loot grabbers leave and tell their friends.

PCGamer has a beautiful 2 page spread showing the wonders of GWEN along with a glowing preview.

in all honesty i think the leavers will not be noticed any more than any other of the leavers and in most cases probably less.

good nite the litter box needs to be changed and my little master is giving me that feed me look

Abarra · May 01, 2007, 02:17 AM // 02:17

sigh another point misser...

it's not the hardcore loot grabbers that are unhappy... it's the casual player the one who does the odd bit of farming to suppliment the poor game income by just playing the game. NOT THE HARDCORE FARMER HE IS STILL HAPPY....

please bother to read before posting.

Drazaar · May 01, 2007, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Dont mind Lovi as far as Ive watched he tends to be aggressive and borderline troll his feelings out on the opposition.

As for how word of mouth is the strongest and ironically cheapest form of advertisement this is in fact true.
I believe the view is for every 1 happy customer you have they will tell 2 people of there good experience and recomend you to those 2, but for every 1 bad customer you get they will tell 10 people about there bad experience and recomend to those 10 they avoid you. This is why many successful componies really go out of there way to please the upset over the happy. They know the happy will stay and thus they got that person and all there future business but the upset are the lost income and all companies hate that. You lose there current income they gave you to thrive on AND you lose the income of the other potential customers you could of had but the upset told to avoid.

This is why I think this loot scaling is ultimatly bad for the future of the game.
Does it affect me? No not really, ive been conservative about how I spend my money and thus was able to save up pretty good. Buying a full set of 15K armor is as expensive as im willing to buy and not FOW cause of the price. I manaed to casually work myself into a position where I can live off my funds and wait it out for the rare super loot of l33t skins, big greens, and major saught after mods.
However I would not be able to have this wealth if I was working off the current loot code and ultimatly I would be unhappy. Hell Im taking a tough pill to swallow as is realizing I have to further budget myself cause income is in fact harder to get.

However I do ultimatly worry for the new nd casual player. When I was new 2 years ago it was hard to get workable equipment and it made things hard to borderline unfun but I casually gained more wealth and was able to no longer struggle just to be on par with others. These new and basic casuals now struggle just to even be allowed to deck themselves in there choice of even the cheapest 15K armors and even grab basic neccessity runes placing them in a have not status. A game is ment to be fun not a struggle. We have enough just getting by in life thats why we play games to melt out of the stress of the grind of life and bills and car repairs and what have you.

People shouldnt have to endure a new form of it in GWs trying to figure out how to afford a much needed minor vig run for example. You do this, which A NET has done and you turn people off. And its these upset people we see in a shockingly large number if you think about it that will not buy your future products cause of these recent actions. and that is a lot of lost revenue that will make A NETS pay checks a lil smaller, peoples happy weekend events disapear from the regularity we have, and release of new content.

Considering GW2 is aprx 2 to 3 years away, and with the trend weeve seen with the last few updates to be honest it doesnt make me feel confident that they wll even be able to make a GW2 cause the amount of player base they will have left will be rather small.

Hell I know I was looking forward to GWEN but now im wavering in wondering if I should put that 40 some bucks down on that game or place it somewhere else, and same with GW2. I think that this loot scaling was botced from the start and the threads show that A NET has screwed up and Im watching them with interest to see if A NET is willing to say the real reason why this loot scaling came to be or an oops we screwed up and fix it cause watching the threads and even the in game economics what they said this was for is not happening and is only hurting the people they said this would help and thats down right wrong!

ValaOfTheFens · May 01, 2007, 01:17 PM // 13:17

This loot scaling business is bad. Not because it's making farmers pockets slightly less full or because its making it even harder for casual players but because its tearing the community apart like never before. The update to Necros and Mesmers pissed off alot of people but we were able to debate the changes in a much more civil manner. The loot scaling update has changed something that affects every GW player, from the weekend W/Mo to the hardcore 55 farmer, and many are finding this change to be just plain bad.

So why is loot scaling bad? To answer that we have to look at how we get loot in the game.

You get loot by:
-completing quests
-killing monsters
-opening chests
-winning HoH
-playing some awesome games on the Boardwalk

Loot scaling only affects what you get from killing monsters. So from a purely logical point of view you could argue that it affects a relatively small portion of the game. However, we all know that killing monsters is a large portion of many players income. The amount of gold you get from quests is awful and missions in NM don't give you any gold, which is really dumb. The weapons you receive as quest rewards usually aren't appropriate to your level and aren't worth much when you merch them. Heck, most white drops are worth more!

Chests are...chancy. Most of the time you get crap and its worth even less than the key you used to open the chest. HoH chests seem to be a law unto themselves and I haven't heard of that many bad drops from them. I dunno about the Boardwalk games. Some people play them for the loot but more play for the afk Lucky/Unlucky action.

Back to killing monsters. So when you kill monsters you can get 1 of 6 things(bosses sometimes drop more than 1 thing as we all know): a weapon drop of random rarity, a collector item(if applicable), gold, crafting materials, armor, or a green drop(if applicable). Knowing that, we go onto the field of battle and expect to enjoy the spoils of war. *lol* You can't expect every monster to drop something but if you clear an entire area you can expect to get drops from about 1/3 of the monsters there. After sifting through your drops maybe 1 will be good enough to keep and the rest go to the merch or maybe you're saving up collector items to get a decent weapon for your toon. Since the amount of raw crafting materials dropping is fairly low you have to salvage what you can from undesirable drops and armor, which end up merched just as often as whites, to keep your stores full. Because you're likely to change armor quite a few times and once you've played for a while you'll see the value in having a max damage range for any weapons you make for yourself. This is what you would have done under the old loot system.

In the new system, greens and rare materials are exempt from scaling. It was a smart move but unlikely to affect most players. What will affect most players is a sudden shortage of common crafting materials. Example, I used a large amount of Wood Planks to make Rolls of Parchment for my Necro's Scar Pattern armor. I had to salvage an enormous amount of drops(I had alot in storage so it was no problem) in addition to buying from the Materials NPC. Now I have just over 100 Wood Planks left. To get back to 250 now, I'd have to buy from the NPC or farm for hours and hope that whatever staffs or bow I salvaged weren't made of Iron Ingots or Bones. Also, collector items were already a chancy drop now they just don't drop. I liked to collect them during my runs to give to poor players or beginners and now even simple philanthropy is impossible for the middle class player(meaning not rich but not poor either).

I imagine that HM players don't have much to complain about. They're still getting decent drops, though still fewer like the rest of us. I'd like to finish all 3 games(Prophecies is my priority) but guess what? All the PuGs are for HM!! I'm an ok player and have hero/henched most of the missions but I like having human players on certain missions because they're capable of doing stuff NPCs can't(i.e. keeping those n00bs Togo and Mhenlo alive!!). I digress. HM players, please try to understand what we NM players are saying. Loot scaling in NM has no purpose, as we don't get the same quality of drops as you do, and has disrupted NM's economy. Because don't doubt that ANet has created a seperate economy by introducing Hard Mode. Just look at the Trade channel at Kamadan. Selling 1337 Sword for 56k +XX ectos! Whisper Me!

TabascoSauce · May 01, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValaOfTheFens

The amount of gold you get from quests is awful and missions in NM don't give you any gold, which is really dumb.

To paraphrase from Lyra_song, why not give better rewards for playing the game, the missions and quests?

That would benefit casual players, who not not farm.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Welshboss · May 01, 2007, 03:54 PM // 15:54

That's all well and good for those who farm ectos and such, but for us "common" folk who have depended on those junk drops to make a little cash for the overpriced events to attain titles such as boardwalk tickets, booze or sweet stuff... it's a severe blow.

Once again we get the short end of the stick all in the name of stopping those damned bots. Heres a clue how to stop them.... ban the IP addresses for a start.... although that may mean shutting down the Korean server...

Loviatar · May 01, 2007, 04:03 PM // 16:03

[QUOTE=Drazaar]

Quote:

Dont mind Lovi as far as Ive watched he tends to be aggressive and borderline troll his feelings out on the opposition.

hi

parden me while i (by your definition troll again......politely)

Quote:

However I do ultimatly worry for the new nd casual player. When I was new 2 years ago it was hard to get workable equipment and it made things hard to borderline unfun but I casually gained more wealth and was able to no longer struggle just to be on par with others. These new and basic casuals now struggle just to even be allowed to deck themselves in there choice of even the cheapest 15K armors and even grab basic neccessity runes placing them in a have not status.

that bolded part proves that you are a relative newcomer to the game so i will politely explain something to you.

before the RUNE TRADER AND GUARANTEED RUNE SALVAGE which were bitterly opposed by the farming community both casual and hardcore

paying 1.5k to 5k for a minor was common back then not look how high it has gone at less than 2k.

the highest minor i saw yesterday was 1.6k with most every other rune including sup absorb (270 gold) at under 200 gold.

the highest insignia was 5.5k for the bloodstained.

15k armor is what you work for as a goal after you get the DROK/CHAPTER EQUIVALENT armor not right from the start.

NOTE

i am PVE super casual and i have been hit by every balance nerf or skill nerf from early beta.

my ele is still my fun character to play i just use her differently after the dreaded AOE change.

since i am casual the loss of loot does not bother me and with just over 24 months on my favorite character still have less than 2000 total hours played over 2 years.

i still have my favorite DROK armor and my best weapon is my +5 energy and focus from the Factions crafter.

15k is optional.

runes are dirt cheap compared to what we all had to pay earlier.

blackbird71 · May 01, 2007, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ludicro

For those who say it doesnt matter how ANet changes the game, and it doesnt matter what people think because the game will continue to sell, I have three words for you.

Star Wars Galaxies. 'Nuff said really.

That's real funny considering that if you read back a few pages, SWG was exactly the example I used to show how Anet is on the track to kill the game. Sure, SWG still sells, but not nearly like it used to. And the fact is that despite both having "Wars" in the title, Guild Wars is not Star Wars, it was never based on an incredibly successful trilogy of movies that appealed to generations and has had decades to build up a massive loyal following of fans, many of whom will continue to buy anything with the word "Lucas" on it regardless of how poorly managed or badly mishandled it is. Guild Wars does not have the luxury of falling back on such a fanbase. Seriously, if any other game pulled a stunt like SWG did, it would have been offline in months, rather than just suffer a hefty loss of subscriptions.

Drazaar · May 01, 2007, 04:50 PM // 16:50

[QUOTE=Loviatar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drazaar

hi

parden me while i (by your definition troll again......politely)

that bolded part proves that you are a relative newcomer to the game so i will politely explain something to you.

And ill politly tell you your completly full of yourself to assume so bodly my time spent in this game.
At 22 months and counting I am by far not new and worked to earn what I have.

And yes 15K is somethign you work for but with the current new loot scaling that goal is much more out of reach for a casual player to borderline impossible.

Some of the easier farming areas, which are prime areas for casuals to learn this aspect so they can save up for there gaols, via mino and vermin farming are no longer profitable at the least. They used to net you 3K on average per run which was worthwhile for a new commer for the effort. Now your lucky to pull out 1K after 2 runs.

This nerf is nothing good for the casual players and really can be very offensive to A NETs casual player base when there trying to pass it off as it is being a good thign when so much evidence shows that no its not.

Firebaall · May 01, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Can we get some official information on what Anet is doing right now? I'll tell you one thing for sure...

They've been scaling back on all the the items that they have promised they wouldn't scale. I just finished killing 135+ enemies in Hard Mode, without a single rare crafting material, gold item, tome, or other item from the "exempt" list.

/not impressed

drowbane · May 01, 2007, 06:02 PM // 18:02

In the end, Anet's own metrics will tell the tale. I just hope they are smart enough to figure what they did wrong. Business is simple - You must have customers to survive in business. Anet just lost one (me). Last night I played Gw for one hour trying to hunt Hydras with a party of heroes and henchmen in hard mode. It was frustrating and I only made about 2k in gold after selling my drops. I installed WoW, fumbled around trying to figure out how to play but had loads of fun. The decision is simple although painful for me. I LOVED GW since day one but it is not fun anymore so I will move on. There are other options.

I still think the casual player is the quiet majority in GW. They don't post in this forum, they have no idea how to farm an ecto but they loved the game. I was one of these. I have logged countless hours playing and have enjoyed every minute but I am not l33t. I have only begun to try the UW. I have only gotten on ecto on a drop. The game has been ruined for me.

This tread is a great place to vent and debate but it is really irrelevant. We have no idea how the majority will react. In the end the numbers will speak the truth.

I still hold to my belief that they have ruined the game for the casual player, the casual player was the majority of their customer base, they will loose players in the droves and in the end, they will have to fix the blunder or perish.

Most companies today, realize customer satisfaction is the key to success. There are just to many choices for the consumer.

Verek · May 01, 2007, 06:13 PM // 18:13

I can, sort of, understand why they did this but I am just so glad I equipped my heroes before this loot scaling was implemented.

My real complaint is that Anet seem to take the easy route to sort out problems in GW, and also seem to take the opinion that most players will grumble quietly, maybe post on a forum or two and then get on with the more important things in life; work, family……etc.

As I understand it, it was/is the bots causing the problems, not the casual players and yet, once again, it is us that has been hit.

Rather than tackle the problem Anet have screwed up the casual farming for most of us, thanks.

Oh well there’s always WoW.

MSecorsky · May 01, 2007, 06:36 PM // 18:36

If you're a casual player complaining about not having enough money then you're trying too hard to get it. I've been working on vanquishing Nightfall (have all of Istan done and one area on the mainland) and so far just doing that I've put over 60P in the account. This doesn't include the lockpicks I've bought or the piece of 15K armor I picked up for my mesmer (he's the vanquisher, I'll let him have a little luxury.) Pick up the drops, merch the crap, sell a couple elite tomes, cash isn't a problem. Seems you just need to play the game and you'll do fine. The fact that people are trying to get rich is what's killing the fun for them.

These results, btw, are with three heroes and 4 henches.

The changes are being good to me, and if they're hurting bots, so much the better for the game as a whole.

Loviatar · May 01, 2007, 06:44 PM // 18:44

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drowbane

In the end, Anet's own metrics will tell the tale.

and they have the logs of player behavior.

Quote:

I still hold to my belief that they have ruined the game for the casual player, the casual player was the majority of their customer base, they will loose players in the droves and in the end, they will have to fix the blunder or perish.

i disagree completely on that.

the level described all through this is 15k casual as if DROK armor was too trashey to consider.

I DID MY OWN CASUAL TRIAL JUST NOW

lowlands vermin which is the lowest of the low.

results of 20 minutes with an empty inventory no gold and no salvage.

kill till inventory full then go to merchant and sell

442 gold pieces

372 in merchant sales

1 silver dye which i kept but is 190 to sell to dye trader

3.5 fur squares of char hides

814 not counting dye for 20 minutes.

2.4k per hour NOT counting the dye.

2-3 hours farming to get all the runes for at least 2 characters at the current just checked prices at the rune trader.

that also equals 1 DROK 1.5k piece of armor with almost any rune on it as well.

casual is still fine.

15k casual is not casual

milias · May 01, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Hi, I just wanted to put in my $0.02. This change hasn't affect me personally that much, because I don't play that much anymore, due to the lack of time, among other things. Hence, I would consider myself a casual player. And as such, I have to admit that I can't agree with this change. I think the reasons behind it and the intentions are good, but the implementation leaves something to be desired.

As it is implemented now, it is actually to the detriment of casual players, as it is now harder for casual players to earn the gold they need. I myself am a fairly poor player, in in-game financial terms, about 21k in my storage. So far, I haven't noticed any significant change in terms of the drops I get when I party with other people; however, I have given up on solo-farming. Granted, I don't advocate solo-farming, but sometimes I enjoy it, because I don't have the time to do an entire mission in one sitting, and sometimes I just need the money quick to buy something.

From what I've heard, a lot of people have been put off by this change, and not just the hardcore GW players. A lot of casual players are leaving because of this change as well. For a game that's designed for the casual player, I can't imagine it's great news for ANet/NCSoft. Maybe they have their reasons and/or statistics to back it up, I don't know, but as far as I can see, it's driving away current players and potential future customers.

Anyway, that's my $0.02.

FlameoutAlchemist · May 01, 2007, 07:50 PM // 19:50

In the spirit of sharing thoughts, I feel obliged to share my findings as well.

I used to vermin farm for the 1 set of 15k armor that I'd allow per character, as I'm not the kind of player to allow multiple sets of 15k armor per toon. I'd also vermin farm to get money to buy skills for myself, and help two other guildies who CAN'T be on all the time to farm because of school, work, other commitments, etc. I'd farm to get them 20k or so so that they could at least buy skills or a max set of armor. With the loot scaling update, that's now no longer a possibility. I've been trying to vanquish areas for some money, but I'm lucky to pull out 5k from a run, and have yet to get my first Elite tome. Also, my alliance isn't very large yet, so I don't have the team I need to effectively farm areas for needed gold. We're recruiting now, but that'll take time.

Gaile, and Anet, have said that loot scaling is supposed to help the casual player get money, and we're now supposed to be trading our good drops and such with other players. That tells me that, because they've stated that there will be no auction house in GW1, that I have to waste my time and do something I hate - Spam 'WTS' in major districts. All of this takes more and more time, time that I'd rather be spending out on quests with guildies or doing some AB or other PvP.

I'm willing to ride this out to see if Anet will make some changes to loot scaling, but I'm not holding my breath. It also pains me to admit that I'm not recommending this game to anyone at the moment - but I'm not discouraging it either - all because of this update. This game now takes more time, in my opinion, to get some measure of satisfaction, in regards to wealth, game completion, title grinding, and just about anything else you can imagine. To me, this is in direct contravention to one of the selling points for the game; that you didn't have to grind just to get through the game and such.

In short, I feel the cure is worse than the disease. Anet tried to cure a problem where bots would exploit the benefits of solo farming for RL cash. Gaile has said that the feedback she's received has been more positive than negative, but I'm not so sure that it'll last. It may take a while for the elite farmers to feel the pinch because of the amount of money that's already out there in the economy, but their money ultimately came from those who couldn't farm like they could. It came from people like me, and when we can't afford their wares, they'll start feeling the pinch as well. Likewise, if everyone could farm like they could, they would be getting less money as well because the market would be flush with the same wares.

Darksun · May 01, 2007, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abarra

OK so you can get more loot in hard mode (which I've tried in a couple of areas by the way and got zip) Well grats.

Ok, that definitely makes me question your bias,(although it could just be bad luck) but I don't make the assumption that casual players never play Hard Mode. How many hrs a week/day is a casual player to you? My friend plays about 6hrs a week max.(only on Fri/Sat at my place) and he's getting his second piece of Vabbian armor, has a 15k set and a luxon set. He has never farmed. EVER. You guys are talking about Rune & skill prices.. I just can't buy it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abarra

So keep telling me you're making so much cash in hard mode because I'm sure you're having a great time. But the view that all other players should be forced to play your way is both selfish and again as mentioned by the devs not the way the game was intended.

You're beating a Strawman. I never said anyone should play in any specific way. Period. Second, this change effect solo farmers. You are saying that the casual player goes out and solo farms to get money.. No. I don't buy it. You are assuming a casual player only plays in a specific way (just like you told me I 'selfishly' was) and that the 'huge' solo farming business is now only producing a 1/4 of what it was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbird71

But if you really support the loot scaling and want your opinion to make a difference, then maybe you and everyone who supports it should go and buy an extra account to make up for the lost customers. Other than that, supporting it makes no change in the end.

Are you saying you'd buy a copy of the game for everyone who was opposed to the level cap? This is a silly argument. Every game has people disappointed with it. People leaving is part of the business. You think people are thrilled with the Shaman nerf? Makes the Paragon nerf look tame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbird71

Acknowledge my opponents' views? I've done that, over and over. Read the thread start to finish and tell me one opposing point I have not addressed. But when it comes down to it, the bottom line is that all of that hasn't done a thing to change the opinions of anyone who says that they have found the game to be less enjoyable.

The fact that you make a huge post pointing out all the responses that agree with you. And none weighing the other way. That's complete disregard.
My point: When ANET makes a decision, they need to weigh everything. People leaving the game is not the only factor in the decision making process. I think that's the flaw in what you are saying. This doesn't mean they look and say "some people don't like this.. let's never do it." It means they say "a bunch of people don't like this, but even more do. Lets do it because it attends to other issue we need to fix. Bots, price of rares & materials."

It sucks that people think this is worth leaving over, I wish you didn't. But this just happens in game. The question is weather the bad(people discontent) outweighs the good(people content). THAT's why I think we need to look at both sides.

I certainly agree there are issues (we need auction system, other ways to make $$) but we have to look at it in the middle.. that's why we discuss this.